Comments on: Why Islamization is unIslamic

By: Haider

Haider — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 06:20:55 +0000

meq8, you raise some very interesting points.

I am of the opinion that things we cannot rationally understand, we shouldn’t absorb into our lives. A lot of people admit that they consider their beliefs and actions irrational, but as long as God has instructed them, then they must be true and correct.

This is something I don’t agree with at all.

I am certainly against the religious monopoly on morals, especially since what some religious groups promote isn’t moral at all! Islamists are a good example of such groups. Intimidating people to accept your beliefs or silencing them when speaking out against your beliefs isn’t exactly moral.

Having said all that, it’s important to be aware of possible interpretations of scripture, and not to mistake common interpretations for the intended message.

I don’t believe in obedience for the sake of obedience, and I don’t believe that God would test people’s “faith” by asking them to do crazy things. Which is why the story of Abraham is problematic.

However, in interpreting this story I go by Professor Thomas McElwain’s take on the matter. He sees the incident as a rite of passage, where Ishmael (and Isaac) went through this ritual to mark their move to adulthood. Therefore, Abraham didn’t really intend to sacrifice either of them.

By: meq8

meq8 — Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:04:23 +0000

its all belief in the supernatural, superstitions and the make belief/hocus pokus.. that was copied from the jews/ i blame the jews for all this. all based on no evidence what so ever… yet we allow the religious to control our lives, thinking they have the monopoly on morals and ethics…..
what kind of morality comes from a man called abraham willing to slash the throat of his own son.. its sick.. people have become blinded, the ability to think rationally about these issues has been successfully frightened out of you by the religious “faith-heads”.

By: Haider

Haider — Thu, 01 May 2008 18:24:50 +0000

Dear Ahmed,

Thank you for your comment. To elaborate further on the issue of considering what non-Muslims think in order to promote Islam, it is very important to at least acknowledge their point of view, and to admit where they are right. At times people do things for the wrong reasons, but they hold their reasons as important. Some drink to socialise with others. Rather than condemn them and their intentions, we should accept the need to socialise but then ask: at what cost? and to what degree?

We often word our arguments as polar opposites to what other people’s views are, but there is usually an overlap between them.

This overlap can act as a common ground between us, and rather than focus on where we disagree, we should move from our point of agreement towards the more controversial matters.

By: Ahmed Al-Ruhaimi

Ahmed Al-Ruhaimi — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:54:59 +0000

Excellent!
I’ve been thinking about this topic for a long while, glad to see your views.
One very important point you raised, I hadnt actually realised before. The prophet (pbuh) introduced Islam in a way that it made the people absorb it of their own will, and wholeheartedly..
I have always been troubled by the question of what should an Islamic state or society look like, and while many of my questions remain unanswered, there is one conclusion that I always seem to arrive at. It is simply that if a society FULLY understood the teachings of Islam, there would be a natura drift towards their implementation ( there will always be forces of fitna and evil trying to disrupt this of course).
I get extremely angry with “muslims” at protests, chanting threats of how they will force people and societies to submission and how they will take over the world. They couldnt take over a farmyard because of how flawed their thinking is. but more importantly, it amazes me why they never realise that they dont need to force anything, they only need to set an example. If this example is one that appeals to human’s innate desire for justice, sooner or later people will gravitate towards it. this, as you point out, will take time.. to cite a relevant example, the islamic thoughts on interest… i think in the current climate people may very well be inclined to have an open mind towards what islam has to say about interest…
We have to shock people and societies with the benefits of what islam has to offer. we should be patient. We may be belittled and ridiculed for not drinking, for example, but if we give our reasons in a gentle way and let people go away with what we have told them, there will come a day when they are throwing up on a street corner and they will remember you.. there will come a day when they make drunken comments to their boss at a party and when they get fired, they will remember you..
but as people of logic, we should understand that when they are relaxing at home with a beer, they may very well overlook us as extremist in our views. We have to show understanding of theirs too. this terrible habit of ours to find blasphemy in someone enjoying a drink is misguided. even islam recognises that alcohol has benefits! wine is somethin we are told we will enjoy in the afterlife !!!! i know it wont make you drunk then, but the point remains valid. it can most certainly be enjoyable, but it carries too many risks an the harmful effects completely overshadow the small enjoyment and benefit we can protract from it.
There are endless examples I have seen with my own eyes of muslims shunning people and writing them off as animals for doing certain things. but if those people have never had the privelage of the knowledge and teachings we have, how can we expect them to understand us…we have to set the example of why our choice is better, and it has to be done in a way that THEY will see it with their own eyes..
I may have misunderstood something from the Quran which states that there are three kinds/levels of faith & belief.. and one of them is belief through things we have SEEN…it needs looking into to verify my vague memory, but i think this is an important Quranic statement very relevant to this topic..
Finally, this reminds me of something I read in one of the best books I have ever read (stephen covey, 7 habits of highly effective people). The author recalls an incident where a father is complaining that his son doesnt understand him. the father repeatedly says “i dont understand my son, he wont listen to me”… eventually it dawns on the father.. he is complaining of not understanding his son because his son wont listen to him.. but, and this is something that has stayed with me for years, how can HE understand HIS son, if his chief complaint that his son is not listening.. if HE wants to understand HIS son, then HE needs to listen.. and in the same way, if we truly and genuinely care for others, and if we genuinely believe in what we preach, then our best hope is to try and understand why people do what they do, to understand why we do the opposite, and most importantly to let them SEE why our way is better…